http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one Wed, 14 Jul 2010 19:28:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one/comment-page-1#comment-3187 Lashenov Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:28:40 +0000 http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one#comment-3187 I think adoption is wonderful. You are a kind, loving person and should feel proud of yourself. I can't believe people would say it is fake. They must be jealous that they cannot afford to adopt, or they are just mean people in general. Ignore them. . You are a gift to that child, and you should ignore anyone who says otherwise. Only selfish people who want a child to fufill some sick fantasy of living their dreams through a "mini me" would say otherwise. The parents gave up their rights. It is not their right to be so angry over a child they handed over to someone else. Open adoptions do exist, however. If the person who gave up her child is angry, she should look at herself. She is probably just very sad and angry at herself. It is natural for people to have guilt and feel jealous. They gave their children up for adoption. They are mad that their birth children love someone else. Well, the adopted parents obviously loved and provided for and the birth mother didn't. This is life. It is sad that people have to give their children away, but it is a good decision for some people to make. I can understand how hard it must be. I think it is sadder that so many children live in homes with violence and drugs. It is better for the child to be cared for properly. I don't understand why this causes so much anger. Yes you have changes to your record...is it really worth being so upset that someone who didn't want to raise you is no longer tied to you in any way? I am sure it hurts...but why would someone be so upset about it? I guess it is something i will never undertstand. But everyone should try to make the best of it, and be happy as possible imo. I think adoption is wonderful. You are a kind, loving person and should feel proud of yourself.
I can’t believe people would say it is fake. They must be jealous that they cannot afford to adopt, or they are just mean people in general. Ignore them. .
You are a gift to that child, and you should ignore anyone who says otherwise. Only selfish people who want a child to fufill some sick fantasy of living their dreams through a “mini me” would say otherwise.
The parents gave up their rights. It is not their right to be so angry over a child they handed over to someone else. Open adoptions do exist, however. If the person who gave up her child is angry, she should look at herself. She is probably just very sad and angry at herself. It is natural for people to have guilt and feel jealous. They gave their children up for adoption. They are mad that their birth children love someone else. Well, the adopted parents obviously loved and provided for and the birth mother didn’t.
This is life. It is sad that people have to give their children away, but it is a good decision for some people to make. I can understand how hard it must be. I think it is sadder that so many children live in homes with violence and drugs. It is better for the child to be cared for properly.
I don’t understand why this causes so much anger. Yes you have changes to your record…is it really worth being so upset that someone who didn’t want to raise you is no longer tied to you in any way? I am sure it hurts…but why would someone be so upset about it? I guess it is something i will never undertstand. But everyone should try to make the best of it, and be happy as possible imo.

]]> http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one/comment-page-1#comment-3186 Joseph the Second Tue, 09 Feb 2010 00:39:23 +0000 http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one#comment-3186 Because They don't Know any better... -And YOU Do. :) Because They don’t Know any better… -And YOU Do.

]]> http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one/comment-page-1#comment-3185 Anonymous Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:29:50 +0000 http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one#comment-3185 Thank you Victoria. You've proved my point. One of the very few people here who share an opinion with me. Thank you Victoria. You’ve proved my point. One of the very few people here who share an opinion with me.

]]> http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one/comment-page-1#comment-3184 Karring Kat Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:39:15 +0000 http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one#comment-3184 I suppose it's the same people who see everything in the world in black and white... what they probably mean is that who the child would have become, ie, their future identity, has been taken away... this is a very simplistic and quite frankly, stupid, viewpoint. Every person on the planet has a future identity that is changed every day by things that happen in their lives, both good and bad. A child's future identity would change hugely by parents dying, parents divorcing, moving to another country, going to a different school, becoming friends with a specific person, doing a sport etc...these things can all lead their lives into very different paths...none of them 'fake', just different. An adoptive childs identity is no more fake than a child who has experienced any of the above examples. at the end of the day, what counts is that you love your boy and he loves you...ignore anyone who tells you different! I suppose it’s the same people who see everything in the world in black and white…
what they probably mean is that who the child would have become, ie, their future identity, has been taken away… this is a very simplistic and quite frankly, stupid, viewpoint.
Every person on the planet has a future identity that is changed every day by things that happen in their lives, both good and bad. A child’s future identity would change hugely by parents dying, parents divorcing, moving to another country, going to a different school, becoming friends with a specific person, doing a sport etc…these things can all lead their lives into very different paths…none of them ‘fake’, just different.
An adoptive childs identity is no more fake than a child who has experienced any of the above examples.
at the end of the day, what counts is that you love your boy and he loves you…ignore anyone who tells you different!

]]> http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one/comment-page-1#comment-3183 __A_YAHO Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:54:45 +0000 http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one#comment-3183 First, we need to define our terms: what do we mean by "identity"? Adoption laws, courts, agencies, and most any and all other agents involved in adoption have a clear interest in rupturing all ties of a child with its progenitors and community, and replacing them with others, as defined by the legal system that they control on all levels. To do this, myths have been built up concerning adoption that, when challenged, place those in power, those in control of the situation--including parents--in a moral dilemma: Even if they agree with what is being said--theoretically, morally, ethically--the circumstances of their lives, the weight of their laws, the preponderance of notions of property in their legal system, as well as the sheer desire to make it so, all result in questions such as this one being asked, as well as in the way the question is framed. In purely legal terms, due to the fact that for the majority of states in the U.S. a child's birth certificate is sealed by the courts, or that for most of us adopted overseas our birth documentation is completely falsified--an avalanche of bogus paperwork in order to shuttle us out of the country--then yes, I think it is fair to say that an adopted child's identity, as defined in this legalistic manner, is not his or her real or true identity. Second, what strikes me particularly strange about having growing up in the United States is the attention given to all aspects of, say, the immigrant experience, and genealogy, and "roots", and ethnicity, such that everyone gets a "hyphen" attached to their country of origin--Polish-American, Italian-American, and in my case, Lebanese-American--except for the true-blue Americans, who are simply "all-American". Given this pride taken in ethnicity, and the obvious hierarchy it establishes in terms of racism, xenophobia, and the like, how is it possible to claim some kind of ethnicity--or other marker of identity--for any child who has not grown up in his or her culture? Eating falafel does not make me "Lebanese", and I still do not claim to be Lebanese now that I'm living here. Why allow such pretension in the States? So in this case as well, I think that my American identity was not "true"--it was instead a series of masks, of affectations--neither in terms of my adoptive family, nor in terms of my birth country. Third, and as an elaboration of this, I would admit to having an identity, that is made aware to me when I am around people from where I grew up--our speech patterns, our cultural references, our way of seeing things--all are reflective of a time in U.S. history when individual and local areas all had their own manners and mores, quirks, and culture. This of course has now been paved over, suburbanized, and WalMartized. This truly local culture has been replaced by a strange globalized and globalizing hodgepodge of references to superficial trappings of ethnic "style", such that a child's identity is not formed in a local town, say, but from a Mountain Dew commercial instead. Perhaps this is what is meant by "identity" in this question? Fourth and finally, I think there is a hypocrisy within the American view of itself in terms of adoption, in the sense that society and culture in general make reference to blood lines, ancestry, familial ties, and the "nurture" aspect of family relationships, such that we have no problem saying, "he's a chip off the old block" or else, "she takes after her grandmother on her mother's side", or "he's the spitting image of his father." Why should it be, then, that all of a sudden the adopted child is supposed to believe that in his or her case, this doesn't matter? That there is no nature, only nurture? How is it not possible to understand that each and every one of these references might seem slight in and of their own selves, but in the aggregate, are like being bled to death from a million tiny cuts? The problem here is much deeper than portrayed, because it isn't a bunch of so-called anti-adoption activists that have made suicide the number one cause of death for adopted Korean males in certain adoptive countries, for example. It isn't "bad answers" on this bulletin board that have driven hundreds if not thousands of adopted children from Korea, Taiwan, Lebanon, etc., in progressive waves of generations of dispossessed children who vainly attempt to reverse their exodus and return to their lands of birth, in a useless but necessary attempt to re-establish some vague sense of what we currently refer to as "identity". In 10, 15, and 20 years, it will be the turn of Ukraine, and Russia, and Guatemala, and Ethiopia, and Kenya, and Kazakhstan, and and and...., until such a day, God willing, that the injustice of adoption, and thus this destruction of identity, can be definitively stopped, once and for all. And so you can challenge this "revolt", with a kind of haughtiness that I'm sure is not normally of you, and thereby risk alienating your adopted child, or you can make the huge leap necessary in your worldview in order to attempt to finally understand, instead of simply imposing on him or her, and by extension, on all of us, these myths that we simply wish to point out as being such; in an effort to clear the air; to breathe. To start a process of healing. To know who we are. First, we need to define our terms: what do we mean by “identity”? Adoption laws, courts, agencies, and most any and all other agents involved in adoption have a clear interest in rupturing all ties of a child with its progenitors and community, and replacing them with others, as defined by the legal system that they control on all levels. To do this, myths have been built up concerning adoption that, when challenged, place those in power, those in control of the situation–including parents–in a moral dilemma: Even if they agree with what is being said–theoretically, morally, ethically–the circumstances of their lives, the weight of their laws, the preponderance of notions of property in their legal system, as well as the sheer desire to make it so, all result in questions such as this one being asked, as well as in the way the question is framed. In purely legal terms, due to the fact that for the majority of states in the U.S. a child’s birth certificate is sealed by the courts, or that for most of us adopted overseas our birth documentation is completely falsified–an avalanche of bogus paperwork in order to shuttle us out of the country–then yes, I think it is fair to say that an adopted child’s identity, as defined in this legalistic manner, is not his or her real or true identity.
Second, what strikes me particularly strange about having growing up in the United States is the attention given to all aspects of, say, the immigrant experience, and genealogy, and “roots”, and ethnicity, such that everyone gets a “hyphen” attached to their country of origin–Polish-American, Italian-American, and in my case, Lebanese-American–except for the true-blue Americans, who are simply “all-American”. Given this pride taken in ethnicity, and the obvious hierarchy it establishes in terms of racism, xenophobia, and the like, how is it possible to claim some kind of ethnicity–or other marker of identity–for any child who has not grown up in his or her culture? Eating falafel does not make me “Lebanese”, and I still do not claim to be Lebanese now that I’m living here. Why allow such pretension in the States? So in this case as well, I think that my American identity was not “true”–it was instead a series of masks, of affectations–neither in terms of my adoptive family, nor in terms of my birth country.
Third, and as an elaboration of this, I would admit to having an identity, that is made aware to me when I am around people from where I grew up–our speech patterns, our cultural references, our way of seeing things–all are reflective of a time in U.S. history when individual and local areas all had their own manners and mores, quirks, and culture. This of course has now been paved over, suburbanized, and WalMartized. This truly local culture has been replaced by a strange globalized and globalizing hodgepodge of references to superficial trappings of ethnic “style”, such that a child’s identity is not formed in a local town, say, but from a Mountain Dew commercial instead. Perhaps this is what is meant by “identity” in this question?
Fourth and finally, I think there is a hypocrisy within the American view of itself in terms of adoption, in the sense that society and culture in general make reference to blood lines, ancestry, familial ties, and the “nurture” aspect of family relationships, such that we have no problem saying, “he’s a chip off the old block” or else, “she takes after her grandmother on her mother’s side”, or “he’s the spitting image of his father.” Why should it be, then, that all of a sudden the adopted child is supposed to believe that in his or her case, this doesn’t matter? That there is no nature, only nurture? How is it not possible to understand that each and every one of these references might seem slight in and of their own selves, but in the aggregate, are like being bled to death from a million tiny cuts?
The problem here is much deeper than portrayed, because it isn’t a bunch of so-called anti-adoption activists that have made suicide the number one cause of death for adopted Korean males in certain adoptive countries, for example. It isn’t “bad answers” on this bulletin board that have driven hundreds if not thousands of adopted children from Korea, Taiwan, Lebanon, etc., in progressive waves of generations of dispossessed children who vainly attempt to reverse their exodus and return to their lands of birth, in a useless but necessary attempt to re-establish some vague sense of what we currently refer to as “identity”. In 10, 15, and 20 years, it will be the turn of Ukraine, and Russia, and Guatemala, and Ethiopia, and Kenya, and Kazakhstan, and and and…., until such a day, God willing, that the injustice of adoption, and thus this destruction of identity, can be definitively stopped, once and for all.
And so you can challenge this “revolt”, with a kind of haughtiness that I’m sure is not normally of you, and thereby risk alienating your adopted child, or you can make the huge leap necessary in your worldview in order to attempt to finally understand, instead of simply imposing on him or her, and by extension, on all of us, these myths that we simply wish to point out as being such; in an effort to clear the air; to breathe. To start a process of healing. To know who we are.

]]> http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one/comment-page-1#comment-3182 Serenity Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:37:39 +0000 http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one#comment-3182 I like to think that both identities make up the whole of who my kids are. Adoptive and genetic. Neither are fake and very real. We know we're real,(Aparents) the thing is so is the first family too. I'm talking about if they're good people or not, thats not the point of it all. I'm married and I changed my surname to my husbands, but I still recognise my family of origin and the name that remains on my birth certificate. Its still part of who I am. The difference is no one sealed all my records once I was married because we formed another family together. The adoptions especially were done in the past, mainly out of ignorance was that sealed records meant you would never know anything. For some people that hurt badly, left a hollow space, a void. Not all people feel like that, but we have to consider those who do. Victoria, just be confident as a mother, and don't feel threatened by the knowledge of you kids information or their need to know it. Work to be open to why things have changed in countries other than your own. (You might not, just trying not to assume.) Thats one of the mistakes adoptive parents in the past made and paid for it. I know a few who ended up losing out because of those fears and pressure on their kids who felt guilty for wanting to know anything about birth families. I have a close friend who's an adoptive mother who is very insecure about things like this. We talk about it, she's working through it and trying not to let her son see how she's feeling about it so he doesn't feel pressure or guilt if he choses to search. He's a teenager now. (I don't judge her because of it, she's human after all, I feel her fears are groundless, but she's the one who has to see that. and she feels how she feels, and I won't belittle her for it because I'm open to more things than she is.) Its a valid question, at least you asked it. All the best! I like to think that both identities make up the whole of who my kids are. Adoptive and genetic. Neither are fake and very real.
We know we’re real,(Aparents) the thing is so is the first family too. I’m talking about if they’re good people or not, thats not the point of it all. I’m married and I changed my surname to my husbands, but I still recognise my family of origin and the name that remains on my birth certificate. Its still part of who I am. The difference is no one sealed all my records once I was married because we formed another family together.
The adoptions especially were done in the past, mainly out of ignorance was that sealed records meant you would never know anything. For some people that hurt badly, left a hollow space, a void. Not all people feel like that, but we have to consider those who do.
Victoria, just be confident as a mother, and don’t feel threatened by the knowledge of you kids information or their need to know it. Work to be open to why things have changed in countries other than your own. (You might not, just trying not to assume.)
Thats one of the mistakes adoptive parents in the past made and paid for it. I know a few who ended up losing out because of those fears and pressure on their kids who felt guilty for wanting to know anything about birth families. I have a close friend who’s an adoptive mother who is very insecure about things like this. We talk about it, she’s working through it and trying not to let her son see how she’s feeling about it so he doesn’t feel pressure or guilt if he choses to search. He’s a teenager now. (I don’t judge her because of it, she’s human after all, I feel her fears are groundless, but she’s the one who has to see that. and she feels how she feels, and I won’t belittle her for it because I’m open to more things than she is.)
Its a valid question, at least you asked it.
All the best!

]]> http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one/comment-page-1#comment-3181 Lori A Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:40:01 +0000 http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one#comment-3181 One very real reason is that your medical history, things that run through your ancestry and your husbands ancestry have no real bearing on what your child faces as he grows up. I don't recall anyone ever saying that adoptive parents are incapable of love. Some are better at it than others, just like non adoptive parents. Think beyond your child's age level. One day he's going to start having medical situations that you nor your husbands genetics can explain. Some people say its just as easy to run thousands of tests with today's modern technology, but the truth is, not all insurance companies are excited about or willing to spring for all those tests, then there are those who have no insurance, how do they pay for all those tests? And what about the pain a person is in while they run all those tests? To any non adoptee, it's a simple common courtesy, taken for granted, that hereditary medical info will be available to you when you need it, all you have to do is ask. Ethnicity is a nice thing to know too. I know what ethnicity I am by talking to my mother and father. I know someone who thought she was part jewish because of her features. She recently found out she is part hispanic. Its a common courtesy, that explains some things, about them as individuals. The only adoptive parents who get bashed are those who are unwilling to listen to any other view point but their own. Who cling fast to what their adoption agency told them about adoptee's being blank slates, and surrendering mothers being substandard. I'm not substandard in any way, in fact I feel I am superior to "some" in the fact that I have lived a life of pain and survived, I have done something that they admittedly could not do. No one is calling you a fake. No one is calling your love fake. Some say there is a difference in the love between adopted and non adopted children, maybe there was in their home. I wouldn't know, I have no adopted children. I can only relate to what I know. But I would never deny anyone their feelings on a subject or situation I know nothing about and can't relate to. Besides can you not see the bashing that goes on in here toward surrendering mothers, happy adoptee's or angry bitter adoptee's? Everyone gets it, not just adoptive parents. One very real reason is that your medical history, things that run through your ancestry and your husbands ancestry have no real bearing on what your child faces as he grows up.
I don’t recall anyone ever saying that adoptive parents are incapable of love. Some are better at it than others, just like non adoptive parents.
Think beyond your child’s age level. One day he’s going to start having medical situations that you nor your husbands genetics can explain. Some people say its just as easy to run thousands of tests with today’s modern technology, but the truth is, not all insurance companies are excited about or willing to spring for all those tests, then there are those who have no insurance, how do they pay for all those tests? And what about the pain a person is in while they run all those tests?
To any non adoptee, it’s a simple common courtesy, taken for granted, that hereditary medical info will be available to you when you need it, all you have to do is ask.
Ethnicity is a nice thing to know too. I know what ethnicity I am by talking to my mother and father. I know someone who thought she was part jewish because of her features. She recently found out she is part hispanic. Its a common courtesy, that explains some things, about them as individuals.
The only adoptive parents who get bashed are those who are unwilling to listen to any other view point but their own. Who cling fast to what their adoption agency told them about adoptee’s being blank slates, and surrendering mothers being substandard. I’m not substandard in any way, in fact I feel I am superior to “some” in the fact that I have lived a life of pain and survived, I have done something that they admittedly could not do.
No one is calling you a fake. No one is calling your love fake. Some say there is a difference in the love between adopted and non adopted children, maybe there was in their home. I wouldn’t know, I have no adopted children. I can only relate to what I know. But I would never deny anyone their feelings on a subject or situation I know nothing about and can’t relate to.
Besides can you not see the bashing that goes on in here toward surrendering mothers, happy adoptee’s or angry bitter adoptee’s? Everyone gets it, not just adoptive parents.

]]> http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one/comment-page-1#comment-3180 Jack Putter Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:49:23 +0000 http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one#comment-3180 Welcome back. NOT. Welcome back.
NOT.

]]> http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one/comment-page-1#comment-3179 cricketl Mon, 08 Feb 2010 04:24:01 +0000 http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one#comment-3179 I would never think that--regardless of what I read here. I know many adoptive families in the area around here and none of them done that happy reunion thing---although my daughter did try and at its best was very difficult for her as she has told us. She is very real and she is her own person and always will be. I would never think that–regardless of what I read here. I know many adoptive families in the area around here and none of them done that happy reunion thing—although my daughter did try and at its best was very difficult for her as she has told us. She is very real and she is her own person and always will be.

]]> http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one/comment-page-1#comment-3178 FlyingMo Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:39:45 +0000 http://www.babymake.com/why-would-someone-think-that-adoption-erases-a-childs-identity-and-replaces-it-with-a-fake-one#comment-3178 Embrace both families...I support you. Love both families I support you. Open records, I support you and will fight the valiant fight. The people who want to live their whole lives as defined by a moment in time and on TOP of that go around telling other people how they should also embrace their lives were lies...that is just not logical. Fine...go back and change time...I am sure your lives would be much better and telling the rest of the world that your life as lived BY YOU is lie than go right ahead. That is more of a reflection of a life less lived and you not honoring your life, the people in your heritage whether you know what or who it is or not, or all of the people who love you than having an adopters steal who you are. Well....most of these answers are semantics. Honestly...if I hear the same crowd of people say that their entire lives were defined by their birth...and as adoptive parents we stole their lives from them etc... Embrace both families…I support you. Love both families I support you. Open records, I support you and will fight the valiant fight.
The people who want to live their whole lives as defined by a moment in time and on TOP of that go around telling other people how they should also embrace their lives were lies…that is just not logical. Fine…go back and change time…I am sure your lives would be much better and telling the rest of the world that your life as lived BY YOU is lie than go right ahead.
That is more of a reflection of a life less lived and you not honoring your life, the people in your heritage whether you know what or who it is or not, or all of the people who love you than having an adopters steal who you are.
Well….most of these answers are semantics. Honestly…if I hear the same crowd of people say that their entire lives were defined by their birth…and as adoptive parents we stole their lives from them etc…

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